Maddhawk wrote: ↑
Tue Aug 13, 2024 6:48 am
The reason is, although you did share your opinion, your opinions is based on part on what you think is right for others and not solely what is right for you.
I understand you think it's wrong for the others to vote thinking like that. Hopefully my argument doesn't sound like provocation, i tried my best in the wording. I think it could be argued that what you did may appear similar to a certain extend, your opinion would be based on what you think would have been the "right reasons others should have to vote". ( instead of just you not minding the things/justifications/usage of their speech).
I'm not saying you are wrong, i think the opinion you expressed is shared by roughly 50% of people when voting: " vote solely based on what is right for you."( if you are the minority that goes against the crowed the voting process will take care of not representing your marginal opinion too much, you don't have to temper it when voting). when roughly 50% would say "vote for what's best for everyone" ( there's nothing wrong/ you should, think about the "greater good" and temper your "known-harmful-instincts").
I think in that way of saying, you are somewhat sharing similar ideas as those expressed by Stringweasel who said :
And if you do think it should be part of the game, please vote "yes"!
And not something like "you should vote no because it's better for the others so , here are the reasons why"
I have friends with whom i play that are thinking different things on the matter, that would use the blueprint-hub differently. And my opinion is heavily influenced on what they do. But when i play "not solo" i also play with strangers sometimes on multiplayer server, that's part of my personnal 'selfish' experience to be in contact and interacting with "how the others would use the BP hub". I do have to consider what others do even if they are strangers, even if i think only of what's "good for me" because i could be tempted to "prevent the others to do something" because "that could ruin MY games". I only have my personnal limited experience of "the others".
Stringweasel has made several mods and is in touch with other players through the Alt-F4 ( can measure larger/aggregated feedback than me). In a voting process, i think ( sorry if that's offensive) to make this argument a bit lighter, it could be compared as an "alligator trainer" , and the question asked would be "is it safe to have some pet alligator at home ?" , now of course being an alligator trainer, you could say "yes it's safe (for me)" but being an alligator trainer, you could also say "no it's not quite safe for the others" BECAUSE you are an alligator trainer. I think both would be equally valid reasonning, the context of the vote is important.
In voting when you don't know the actual topic discussed it can happen that you vote for someone else to decide/ to represent you. Maybe part of the reasons of why you voted "yes" were moderated which makes it difficult to understand the strengh of the criticsm. To me something as simple as the possibility to prevent importing blueprint from the hub /their library in the game as an option, ( which was announced for large blueprint in 2.0) is enough to temper a lot of my negative feeling about it, i still think for example that some players will ruin their fun, including some of the friend/family to whom i've offered the game and i know they will cut on the reflexion and is part of why i offered them the game. But i know i will be able to find games where it's not "ruining mine" if i don't want to see it have an impact that i could possibly dislike for the reasons that i see others expressed too. ( making me confident i'll be able to find such games).
Melodi-of-Crystals wrote: ↑
Mon Aug 12, 2024 7:25 pm
Honestly even something as simple as a regular session of helping people get blueprints is understanding things would be amazing. I might reach out to the multiplayer section of the forum for this, though hosting it on switch might be interesting to say the least.
I spend time considering the idea of an official blueprint sharing session, so i wrote a dispropotionnaly long digression about it.
TL DR : It seem difficult to me but i think it has less "risk".
There is this forum post too that link a third party website listing all public server without having to log into the game may be useful to know if/when such session happens :
viewtopic.php?p=615348
Many of them have some sort of membership system, meaning humans moderating in different langages and at different time of the day. It may be beyond Wube's ability to guarantee that blueprint shared can 1) contain useful descriptions AND 2) all be moderated according to the same rules as necessary to fit the switch conditions.
The fact that "publicly visible" server are "private/not-Wube affiliated" allows the existence of servers with rules tailored for different community that Wube doesn't have to choose to endorse or not. A bit similar to the multiplayer part of the forum which allows to find players that speak the same langage or are connected at the same time, or want to play the game the same way, which could help for the "sharing of understanding" part.
I don't know what your multiplayer experience is, but to me , i would say if you join a public server with 10 players and you ask for blueprints, 5 will ignore you, 5 of them will share some, and 2 of those can also explain how they work. Roughly.
I host my own games sometimes welcoming friends and strangers, join public servers or game called "help me plz" and it has happened that i join game from the multiplayer part of the forum, i think they are all methods that makes me feel more like "sharing" than importing from website. But on the other hand there are plenty of rare blueprints i learned from that are only found on the internet and i often "paused youtube video", to try and understand what was happening on the screen to learn about the game. Which i know is not fun to do compared to having the blueprint in game for most players. I think in such case it would be nice to have an explanation, i would "attend" or watch the VOD in a way and a sharing session would be even better to learn from what other players do. In here i see no risk of people ruining their fun, that would be "the fun" to me, the good time spent when you also learn things to keep good memories of it.
But who would organise those session, like who could explain ALL the blueprints ? that's part of the impossibility to me to have the same high quality standard AND ALSO everything in a exhaustive way. I think the hub itself would have more value if it is the more exhaustive for some players, but that is the most problematic compared to a tutorial-like hub, with limited blueprints, heavily curated to make sure any infringthing shape or word is removed. That would have more value to other player, and to me also more risk of having inexperimented players spoil their fun if satisfying themselves from those and finishing the game without ever experiencing the joy of making a single blueprint by themselves and then give review about the game that "it's limited because there's only so few blueprints available" or that "the sharing session are too short".
I advised the discord at first because those are already shaped in "communities" where players are feeling like they share something more than just the langage when they join this one or that one, like the ambiance. "Publicly visible server" or "the multiplayer part of the forum" to me are somewhat similar ways of searching for "communities". But i can also understand not everyone thinks like that, for other people it would be more "the general rules/the public" and "my friends/me/the private" and nothing in between as a discord/reddit/steam/whatever "community" and as such not a satisfying answer to use those. I still think their wide adoption by players "in general" makes it look like not so interesting for Wube to try and propose / organize an alternative that would have to compete/be better, to something that already works for many players with their different references and level of understanding and langage and what they find fun and so on. ( with some limitations).
I wish i could always "yes/no" everything x)
